to pass up a win?

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or2az
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to pass up a win?

Postby or2az » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:49 pm

In all the games I have played, I never passed up a chance to win when the opportunity was there. I still haven't, but I was tempted.
It was east 4 of a hanchan and I had a pretty good hand, with 35 tiles left, and a decent lead.
2-crak 2-crak 2-crak 7-crak 7-crak 7-crak 9-crak 9-crak 4-dot 4-dot green-dra green-dra green-dra.
I called riichi and two turns later, South discards the 4-dot.
Do I ignore it and go for the yakuman. I didn't.
I lucked out with the ura dora and busted an opponent with 24,600 pts to end the match right there.
Without the riichi (and the ura dora), the match would have continued (unless I got the yakuman).
In your opinion, did I play this correctly?

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby Shirluban » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:11 am

Considering there are only two more winning tiles, yes you've done the right thing.

Letting pass a win is rarely a good idea, unless the hand scores really low and you can significantly improve it.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
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Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby Krabman » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:21 pm

Probably a silly question but why did the game end there? I see that negative scores were allowed.

Passing up a win is also valid in case of Ron that makes a player bankrupt and the win doesn't improve your position in the game. That's only for rulesets with no negative scores, such as Tenhou. I've had some games when I switched Auto Win on and pointlessly busted an opponent...

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby Ignatius » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:52 pm

Krabman wrote:Probably a silly question but why did the game end there? I see that negative scores were allowed.

Passing up a win is also valid in case of Ron that makes a player bankrupt and the win doesn't improve your position in the game. That's only for rulesets with no negative scores, such as Tenhou. I've had some games when I switched Auto Win on and pointlessly busted an opponent...


Maybe in this match a minus zero points situation ends the game?

Also, I suppose the second image shows the result of the match with Steve with a total of 70,600 points and South Player being the busted one with -5,100 points...


If you pass a Ron, wich is a good strategy sometimes, you may also put yourself in danger of being ronned in later turns or something. But yeah, sometimes the best option is to be a risk-taker and aim for something better.
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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby or2az » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:52 am

Probably a silly question but why did the game end there? I see that negative scores were allowed.

Maybe in this match a minus zero points situation ends the game? Also, I suppose the second image shows the result of the match with Steve with a total of 70,600 points and South Player being the busted one with -5,100 points...

yes, that is correct. The game ends when a player is bankrupted. The east 4 hand put him under to end the hanchan early.

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby Kyuu » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:10 am

Oya baiman is effectively a win for the whole game, unless y'manage to screw things up royally. So no, don't pass something like that up, just to get yakuman.

===

Passing up a win may be necessary, if you have an decent opportunity to do better.

For example:
http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015102217gm-0 ... &tw=0&ts=9

I'm sitting in 3rd place; and 4th place needs a haneman (against me) or a baiman tsumo to pass me up. On top of that, i got to tenpai on my third turn. No way was I gonna cash it for 3900 to end the game and leave me in third. A 9-sou would effectively give me 2nd (ron) or the win (tsumo).

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby Barticle » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:13 am

or2az wrote:yes, that is correct. The game ends when a player is bankrupted.

Another possible explanation would've been that the game had a rule that ends a match once someone breaks 50k, 60k or 70k.

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby Referee » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:34 pm

Well, given that you riichi'd, might as well call it. hehe. Lucky ura dora, but it's still a haneman without it (18000 on oya ron). That wouldn't have ended the game, however, as shimocha would hang on with 1.5 there. (Not an ideal situation unless your name is Ikeda Kana)

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby or2az » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:11 pm

Another possible explanation would've been that the game had a rule that ends a match once someone breaks 50k, 60k or 70k--Barticle

I haven't run across that option in any of the rulesets I've played with but I did check the "guide" to learn a new word, Toppu Uchikiri

18000 on oya ron. That wouldn't have ended the game, however, as shimocha would hang on with 1.5 there--Referee

Actually, only 900 pts, since the honba count was 2, a little closer to Kana's zero points mess at the hands of Koromo.

Letting pass a win is rarely a good idea, unless the hand scores really low and you can significantly improve it--Shirluban

Passing up a win may be necessary, if you have an decent opportunity to do better--Kyuu

Got it. In your tenhou game, passing up that 6-bam to wait for the 9-bam for the San Shoku was a good idea under the circumstances.

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby Barticle » Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:53 pm

Congrats on hitting the big five-oh-oh! :)

or2az wrote:I haven't run across that option in any of the rulesets I've played with but I did check the "guide" to learn a new word, Toppu Uchikiri

That's the one! I think I've only seen it in one or two games, but I like to cover everything.

PS Believe it or not, this week I've finally completed a major update of my PDF guide! (I'm surprised too.)

Just proof-reading it now and hope to have it uploaded pretty soon.

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby or2az » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:25 pm

Fantastic! I look forward to reading it. I'm always recommending it as a reference to the ladies I'm trying to convert telling them it was my "bible" for learning japanese mahjong (since they think I know so much).
Hope they don't forget everything over the next 5 months.

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Re: to pass up a win?

Postby Ignatius » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:18 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot to say to Or2az: Congratulations for your 500th post! ( I´m a bit tardy, sorry.)
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.


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