So, aparently, I'm not there yet.

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Referee
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So, aparently, I'm not there yet.

Post by Referee » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:05 pm

OK, I am not a good player, that's for sure. In any case, I've been trying This trainer I've found, and it complains a lot about my choices.

I've done this on several short sessions, so I can't claim fatigue or anything. But yeah, these numbers seem indicative of a poor play. Anyway, these are my stats, copy-pasted from the site.

These stats update every time you bring a hand to ready.
Ready Hands: 100 hands
Tiles Discarded: 1029 tiles
Average Discards Until Ready: 10.3 discards
Optimal Discards: 760 discards
Optimal Discard Rate: 74% (760/1029)
Efficiency Acquired: 19969 tiles
Potential Efficiency Aquirable: 21416 tiles
Overall Efficiency: 93% (19969/21416)

I need to learn about tile shapes somehow, not for waits, but for hand-building. Haven't been able to find a nice resource for this that speaks to people at a low level... I'll have to keep trying to get better...

Lxa_
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Re: So, aparently, I'm not there yet.

Post by Lxa_ » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:12 pm

I am sure you know about Daina Chiba "Riichi Book I", but it must be mentioned every time people speak about Riichi strategy, so here it is: https://dainachiba.github.io/RiichiBooks/

Now about the efficiency trainer - it is a great app, and I have practiced with it a lot. I found that for me, the most beneficial way to use it was the following:
  • every single time the app said that my discard was not the most efficient, I stopped and clicked on the link in the app that opened Tenhou wait calculator
  • then I sat down and tried to figure out how exactly the alternatives shown by Tenhou were more efficient than my discard
  • then I tried to generalize what I saw and think of a rule that would have led me to choosing a more efficient alternative in that situation.

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Ozball
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Re: So, aparently, I'm not there yet.

Post by Ozball » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:32 pm

Also something to consider if you're wanting to work on tile efficiency, make sure the trainer does not consider Chiitoitsu (there is a setting for it) as that will throw out the numbers on what's considered most efficient.

Also for more on Tile Efficiency check out this series written by puyo, and translated by Hongyi: http://justanotherjapanesemahjongblog.b ... icles.html
And Mahjong Guide has some good articles on Tile Efficiency and other stuff: https://mahjong.guide/list-of-articles/

Also worth noting that while Tile Efficiency is definitely a basic that should be learnt by all, the most efficient discard is not always going to be the "best" discard.
"Furiten is the most holiest!" - Garthe Nelson

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Re: So, aparently, I'm not there yet.

Post by Referee » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:20 am

I will look those, thank you both. I'm finding myself pursuing ittsu too much, or maybe something like sanshoku... I need to learn more flexibility, I guess. (Maybe this should have gone in the Dojo...)

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Re: So, aparently, I'm not there yet.

Post by Lxa_ » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:50 am

If you like yaku building, such as iitsu and sanshoku, you should definitely try playing MCR :)

It also has "Mixed Straight" (123-456-789 is 3 different suits), "Mixed Shifted Chows" (like sanshoku, but shifted by 1, e.g. 234-345-456 in 3 different suits), "Pure Shifted Chows" (in 1 suit, can be shifted by either 1 or 2, e.g. 345-567-789) and many other interesting yaku.

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Re: So, aparently, I'm not there yet.

Post by Ozball » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:41 am

Referee wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:20 am
I will look those, thank you both. I'm finding myself pursuing ittsu too much, or maybe something like sanshoku... I need to learn more flexibility, I guess. (Maybe this should have gone in the Dojo...)
Good luck and feel free to ask if you have any thing you're unsure of.

I find that ittsu is quite a hard yaku to get, and generally not worth it unless you start with 6-7 of the required tiles. Main problem is you need to fill 2 penchan/kanchans as well as the middle ryanmen/kanchan, and if you open to fill it (which you probably will a decent amount of time), it's only worth the 1 han. On top of that, because of the range of tiles it uses it doesn't stack well with other yaku, and getting more than 1 dora can be hard (depending on your last block and pai) so getting value is difficult.
You can't stack it with simpler yaku like tanyao (since you need 1 and 9), or sanshoku (not enough blocks/tiles), and pinfu is hard to get since you're either risking not getting your iitsu if your wait is something like 12345 (waiting on a 36), or you just can't get pinfu since you need to fill in one of the two end block pen/kanchans. So your best bet is stacking it with honitsu and yakuhai, but even then, I find I add it as an after thought to those yaku, rather than starting with ittsu and adding the others on.

Not saying this is the best way, or necessarily a good way (I don't know honestly), but the way I look at my hands is I find one core yaku (pinfu, honitsu, yakuhai etc) and then try and pile as many other yaku/value on top of it that I can. If I have a seat wind... ok can I make this honitsu? or sanshoku? If I get to closed tenpai, will I likely have a good wait to riichi? The main reason I bring this up, is that I rarely, if ever, consider ittsu as one of those base yaku, just because of it's low value and it's difficulty in stacking with others. It's more one that I seek to add on to another base.

Sanshoku is another story, a relatively flexible yaku that can combine easily with others, you just need to be careful about your blocks and deciding whether you will open for it or not. Though if you ask Gemma, she'll tell you this is the only Yaku :lol: :wink:

While I don't remember exactly how I ended up at my existing playstyle (taking a 4 year gap in playing doesn't help) one thing I remember from my early days that helped me, was one of the podcasts that Jenn and Garthe used to do, where Garthe basically said "MenTanPin is the core of riichi mahjong" (not an exact quote, also for reference, MenTanPin = (Menzen/Closed)Riichi, Tanyao, Pinfu) and that you should recite it to yourself ten times before going to bed at night. Now obvious hyperbole aside, this stuck with me, and it's one of the core pillars of my play even to this day. Not to say I always go for it, but with this combination, you only need 1 dora, or another yaku like sanshoku or iipeikou, and you're already at mangan. (well 4/30 so 7700/11600 in cases where kiriage (rounding up) is not used, also tsumo doesn't count in this case, since it drops you to 4/20)
But as an idea I feel it gives a good base to work on. If you can't get all three, then you can still look at two (say MenPin or MenTan) and try and substitute other yaku/value in to make up for the missing one. It gives you a base to start on basically. And (while this was a roundabout way to get here...) Pinfu is a great yaku to focus on if you want to work on your efficiency, since efficient play will tend towards ryanmen blocks and waits anyways.

So maybe try playing a few games just focusing on Pinfu or trying to get MenTanPin as much as you can, just as a practice exercise, and see how you go. Not saying you have to change your playstyle permanently (if it even is a change), just for a few games and see if it helps with your efficiency.


Sorry, this ended up a lot longer than I intended :oops: Hopefully there is something of use in there, and I wasn't just repeating stuff you already knew :?
"Furiten is the most holiest!" - Garthe Nelson

Online Ranks
Tenhou Rating: Ozball - 1608 - 2nd dan


Old Ranks
MFC: オズボール - Seiryu (Blue Dragon) Master
MFC JPML Rank: 3rd kyu
Ron2 Rating: Ozball - 1335 League: Bronze

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