renhō questions

Japanese Reach Mahjong Rules. Strategy, news, sets - anything!

Moderator: Shirluban

User avatar
or2az
Gold Boarder
Gold Boarder
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:10 pm
Location: USA

renhō questions

Post by or2az » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:21 pm

Renhō (人和). 1st one. It took over 3200 games (about 35,000 hands) for this luck-based hand to occur.
I was surprised by only scoring 8000 points since I once had Tenhō and I knew it was a yakuman.
php5Q1VNoPM.jpg
php5Q1VNoPM.jpg (12.24 KiB) Viewed 10872 times
phpvhz5crPM.jpg
phpvhz5crPM.jpg (12.95 KiB) Viewed 10872 times
Went into Bart's guide to do some research and found that Tenhō and Chiihō are both listed under yakuman while Renhō is listed under optional yakuman. That was somewhat interesting, at least it was to me. They seem quite similar so I figured they would all be yakuman. I wonder why not?
More reading yielded the following. I've included the definitions.

Renhō (Human Win) is related to Chiihō but, instead of winning on your first turn, you win
before your first turn by calling Ron on an opponent's discard.
Renhō can be scored as a Yakuman but in some rules it's only awarded a Mangan.

Chiihō (Earthly Win) occurs when a non-dealer's first drawn tile from the Wall completes their
hand.

Tenhō (Heavenly Win) occurs when the dealer (east) has a complete hand at the start of the
hand of play. In other words it's the dealer version of Chiihō.

I went into the settings of my game and noticed that Renhō (人和) can be turned on and off. I had it on.
What would the hand have been worth if I had it off, not even a mangan??
phpj0XDFUPM.jpg
phpj0XDFUPM.jpg (5.16 KiB) Viewed 10872 times

User avatar
Tom Sloper
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:01 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: renhō questions

Post by Tom Sloper » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:16 pm

or2az wrote: What would the hand have been worth if I had it off, not even a mangan??
phpj0XDFUPM.jpg
If it's off, then it's probably not recognized as having any value at all. Does your game have a detailed help section, or an online forum, or a support email address?
4649おねがいします。

Referee
Expert Reacher
Expert Reacher
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:24 pm

Re: renhō questions

Post by Referee » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:18 pm

And in this particular case, yakunashi.

User avatar
or2az
Gold Boarder
Gold Boarder
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:10 pm
Location: USA

Re: renhō questions

Post by or2az » Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:53 pm

Wow! That's right. I wouldn't even be able to claim any win at all. No yaku in the hand. I guess I would have to wait for my turn and then riichi or hold off for a better wait than kanchan. There is a good possibility of tanyao dora 3, or more. Still a mangan, I think. Glad I had it renhō ari instead of nashi.
Does your game have a detailed help section, or an online forum, or a support email address?
Yes, no, and no.
My detailed help section for this game goes by the name of Ignatius. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53180&start=45#p57209
Surprisingly, the Athena Web Site (Professional Mahjong KIWAME) support page doesn't seem to exist any more. I get NOT FOUND.
Even if it did, it would all be in japanese and not much help to me, which is how "severely in need..." got started.
Oh wait, I just found something in the app. Maybe it will help.
image.jpg
image.jpg (74.65 KiB) Viewed 10860 times

Referee
Expert Reacher
Expert Reacher
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:24 pm

Re: renhō questions

Post by Referee » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:39 am

The ideal draw is 4-pin, for a potential daburii tanpin iipeikou dora 3, baiman.

User avatar
Ignatius
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
Posts: 649
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:54 pm
Location: (From Spain) In Ireland (EU) since 2016, so lazy I didn´t update this until 2019... (私は初心者だし、よろしく)

Re: renhō questions

Post by Ignatius » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:16 am

Your own detailed help section for this game comes, well, err, to help! :lol:

or2az image caption:

役一覧 Yaku list 特殊役 Special Yaku

人和 (レンホー) Renhô

子が副露のない第1巡目でロンアガリする。 Non-dealer player has no calls and during the first turn wins with Ron.
本アプリでは満貫扱いとする。 This application consider it as a Mangan.

流し満貫 (ナガシマンガン) Nagashi Mangan

流局時、自家の捨てた牌が全て么九牌だった場合に成立する。ただし、捨てた牌が他家に副露されている場合は不成立。満貫扱い。
In a draw, in the event that all your discarded tiles are only Yaochû tiles (1, 9 and honours) this Yaku will be completed. However, if one or more tiles of your discarded tiles are claimed by other players to complete melds this Yaku will not be valid. It's considered a Mangan.
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

User avatar
Shirluban
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:53 pm
Location: Svartalfheim
Contact:

Re: renhō questions

Post by Shirluban » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:23 pm

Different rules give different values for renhō.
It could be yakuman, mangan/5 han (combining or not with other yaku), 4 han (plus other yaku and dora), nothing.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules 2022
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

Gnom
Senior Reacher
Senior Reacher
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:15 am
Location: 名古屋市

Re: renhō questions

Post by Gnom » Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:08 am

I also saw it treated as a baiman. Only once though, but it goes to show how it can get different treatment...

Iapetus
Senior Reacher
Senior Reacher
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:00 am

Re: renhō questions

Post by Iapetus » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:28 pm

Gnom wrote:I also saw it treated as a baiman. Only once though, but it goes to show how it can get different treatment...
And in the rules of my club, I lobbied it into being 8 han + whatever else you have. In hindsight, I think 5 han + whatever is fair, since that can match up with double riichi + ippatsu + whatever, and isn't too punishing for something there's no way to avoid. The only problem with that is the possibility of Chiho still existing. Would you pass a win for a chance at yakuman tsumo, knowing you can still double riichi if that fails?

Referee
Expert Reacher
Expert Reacher
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:24 pm

Re: renhō questions

Post by Referee » Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:53 am

That's tricky, because your winning tile is among the few ones that can be considered 100% safe at the moment of daburii being thrown in, and still without going into furiten. So it could be a good thing to pass up this win. As usual, take scores and round-hand number into account. :)

User avatar
Barticle
Platinum Boarder
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 1555
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:08 pm
Location: Ipswich, UK (and usually 一向聴地獄)
Contact:

Re: renhō questions

Post by Barticle » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:32 am

I happened to be looking up some obscure yakumen on Wikipedia Japan today and found a table collating options from several online mahjong platforms.

Five disallow renhou, two give it mangan, one gives baiman and five give yakuman.

User avatar
Ignatius
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
Posts: 649
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:54 pm
Location: (From Spain) In Ireland (EU) since 2016, so lazy I didn´t update this until 2019... (私は初心者だし、よろしく)

Re: renhō questions

Post by Ignatius » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:39 am

Barticle wrote:I happened to be looking up some obscure yakumen on Wikipedia Japan today and found a table collating options from several online mahjong platforms.

Five disallow renhou, two give it mangan, one gives baiman and five give yakuman.
Just being lazy, but... Link, please?
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

User avatar
Barticle
Platinum Boarder
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 1555
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:08 pm
Location: Ipswich, UK (and usually 一向聴地獄)
Contact:

Re: renhō questions

Post by Barticle » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:49 am

No probs, it's at the bottom of the "local yaku" page: http://goo.gl/EjA6sE

User avatar
Ignatius
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
Posts: 649
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:54 pm
Location: (From Spain) In Ireland (EU) since 2016, so lazy I didn´t update this until 2019... (私は初心者だし、よろしく)

Re: renhō questions

Post by Ignatius » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:26 am

Barticle wrote:No probs, it's at the bottom of the "local yaku" page: http://goo.gl/EjA6sE
Thank you, Barticle!
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

User avatar
or2az
Gold Boarder
Gold Boarder
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:10 pm
Location: USA

Re: renhō questions

Post by or2az » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:28 am

No probs, it's at the bottom of the "local yaku" page: http://goo.gl/EjA6sE
WHOA!!!, he replied, and then laughingly he asked, IS THERE AN ENGLISH VERSION?
(google translate just doesn't cut it)

Post Reply