Damaten

[GiriChoko]

Hey guys, I'm new here =D. I was just wondering if there is a way to tell when someone is in damaten. I feel like I don't play into people that much anymore, but those 12k damaten nukes hurt so much. The only possible thing I can think of is that they may discard a dora, and that might indicate theyre near tenpai. Anyone got any better advice? =D

[Scott Miller]

THAT is the art of mahjong! Guessing when your opponents are ready... and thus knowing when to fold to avoid discarding into a loss. Anyone can make a winning hand, but the more profound skill is in avoiding the losses. Being good at avoiding catastrophic losses is what sets the better players apart from the rest.

Your question goes beyond what could be covered in a reply post... you're really talking about how to acquire the art of wait prediction, which requires an academic study of the game.

There is no (to my knowledge) good English language text on advanced strategy in mahjong. The best I've found is "A Mahjong Handbook" by Eleanor Noss Whitney, which has a couple chapters on strategy... but even this book is too superficial. Someone should write a great book on riichi strategy mastery... but anyway... there's an updated edition of Whitney's book, so a lot of book sellers are trying to offload their older edition... make sure you know what you're getting if you order online.

But a quick primer for the beginner... watch your opponents' early discards... they are likely isolated tiles. As the game progresses, you'll start to see a pattern to their discards (or you should learn to recognize these patterns) cluing you into the type of hand they are building (inside hand, outside hand should be obvious, for example). When you start to see discards that should have fit into their predicted hand type... now they are likely ready or near ready. That's the short answer to your question.

When a player is discarding tiles that could/should have fit your prediction of their hand... now they are making choices between types of waits to maximize their chances for a mahjong. They are now likely discarding tiles that weren't so isolated... so now their discards are more indicative of their actual wait based on a process of elimination. Looking at their discards, you know which waits they AREN'T keeping, and thus which ones, by deduction, they ARE. Now their discards really indicate what tiles are the most dangerous.

Learn about suji sets too if you don't already know about them; it's a predictive pattern for discards which helps you guess double sided waits... too much to go over in a short post, but a keyword search for suji will set you up nicely.

Good luck!

[Shirluban]

You can guess someone is tenpai when he keeps drow-discarding instead of discarding tiles from the hand.
Or when he discard obviously dangerous tiles (this should also mean he have a good hand).
If someone stops paying attention to his own hand, then he may be tenpai or near... or he may have given up his hand.

[GiriChoko]

Thank you for the replies guys! o=
I, also, am pretty sad that there aren't any intermediate/high level strategy books in English, being as I really like reading that kind of stuff. I've read a lot of the strategy entries on osamuko though, and those have been helpful. I already knew about suji, but the comment about discarding tiles that should fit in their hand is helpful! For some reason I hadn't though of using that for anything except for single suit hands lol. Also the tsumogiri comment and discarding dangerous things helps! Thank you~

[Gnom]

Be careful though, the next step is to bluff by hinting at something with a discard when one is actually doing something completely different: an easy one for example is to discard many tiles of one colour early in the game and actually waiting for tiles in this colour, your opponents may think you're going for hon/shin itsu and deal into your hand by trying to defend. Mahjong is not an exact science. Or they may start discarding some kanjis/doras late in the game to hint at getting tenpai, just in order to make you fold your hand. That's also why it's a good idea not to stick to one style, it makes you less predictable. If for example I have only done hands with few or best no calls for a while, starting calling will hint that I got tenpai, although I may just be "attackingly defending" by putting pressure on my opponents.

[Ozball]

Be careful though, the next step is to bluff by hinting at something with a discard when one is actually doing something completely different: an easy one for example is to discard many tiles of one colour early in the game and actually waiting for tiles in this colour, your opponents may think you're going for hon/shin itsu and deal into your hand by trying to defend. Mahjong is not an exact science. Or they may start discarding some kanjis/doras late in the game to hint at getting tenpai, just in order to make you fold your hand. That's also why it's a good idea not to stick to one style, it makes you less predictable. If for example I have only done hands with few or best no calls for a while, starting calling will hint that I got tenpai, although I may just be "attackingly defending" by putting pressure on my opponents.

I agree with Gnom here. Change your style up a bit at times. I actually did something similar to Gnom's example in my qualifier. It's just won a dealer mangan, and in the following hand proceeded to reach with no hand points (maybe one dora), as I had a nothing hand and wanted to try and keep my turn as dealer. Worked and made a 2000 point profit. (3000 from no-ten penalties minus my reach stick.