Reachmahjong.com

You have two ways to actively participate in this thread:

1. 1.Post either a tenhou log URL (it doesn't even need to be one of your games) or a screenshot of a more complex situation requiring more profound judgement (putting further stress on that single discard). And I mean tenhou because the standards for "winning" and the ruleset are well understood by everyone.
   
   2. Comment and analyze the possible logical decisions for the hands given by the above group.

Please, don't ask for someone to analyze an entire game. Be more specific as to which hand you are feeling insecure about. Going over a full length game is an exhausting job that I am charging over 5 euros for, and I don't see why anyone should charge any less than that.

In all seriousness now, I, for one, will be checking this thread from time to time as a sort of study and diversion, but this requires teamwork to keep up in the long run. Otherwise, this thread will just rot like the many others that attempt similar goals. Don't let it. It has children and a wife.

OK, I will post the game that prompted the creation of this

http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2012082406gm-0 ... 89893&tw=1

I am going to ask about a couple hands, because I agree that a full game analysis, while useful, is a lot of work to do.

South 1, turn 7: Riichi?

South 2. Should have thrown my hand instead of riiching in turn 9? (-12000 is a big ouch here)

South 3-2. The hand that started the discussion. Lesson here is how awful my discarding was. Interesting points: Hell wait vs Furiten fresh tanki, and how to gauge what level of hand you need to get out of deep trouble late in the game.

Referee wrote:OK, I will post the game that prompted the creation of this

http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2012082406gm-0 ... 89893&tw=1

I am going to ask about a couple hands, because I agree that a full game analysis, while useful, is a lot of work to do.

South 1, turn 7: Riichi?

South 2. Should have thrown my hand instead of riiching in turn 9? (-12000 is a big ouch here)

South 3-2. The hand that started the discussion. Lesson here is how awful my discarding was. Interesting points: Hell wait vs Furiten fresh tanki, and how to gauge what level of hand you need to get out of deep trouble late in the game.

1. Yes. It is well known and understood by current mahjong theory that pinfu dora 1, when you need points, should be reached. You are not getting anything going by turning a potential mangan hand (as this is ippatsu and ura mahjong), into a 2000 points deagari, or 2600 points tsumo.

2. It is not necessary that you take apart your hand yet, but 2s was safer than 5s, and finally 1s (which was safe) instead of 4s (which falls into aida yonken). Now, I am aware of the difference in value here, but the possibility for renchan alone is already worth more on itself, since when you deal in, not only do you obviously lose points, but you lose your last dealer turn as well. If you deal into the last place player's riichi at this poit, and lose your dealer trn, you are highly likely to just end last this hanchan.

If this was jansou, probably your aggressive approach was more fit, though I probably
would have insta-reached with that 2s as well anyway, so I probably wouldn't have had to decide between 4s and 1s in any case.

3. Obviously, deagari (ron) is preferable in these narrow waits.

As for the other question, in aka-ippatsu-ura mahjong, you can set realistic standards of "mangan". If you ask which is more uncommon, to win two mangan hands in a row, or to win a baiman hand at any given time, certainly let us aim for mangan and see what happens. Many times, mangan tenpai ends up becoming haneman with some good fortune on your side, too. But if you are behind for 20000 points in South 3 without a single dealer turn remaining, the situation isn't looking bright for you, and in most cases you will still end up last no matter how hard you try. Be glad when the miracle does come, however, and don't let it slip away.

Referee wrote:South 1, turn 7: Riichi?

South 2. Should have thrown my hand instead of riiching in turn 9? (-12000 is a big ouch here)

South 3-2. The hand that started the discussion. Lesson here is how awful my discarding was. Interesting points: Hell wait vs Furiten fresh tanki, and how to gauge what level of hand you need to get out of deep trouble late in the game.

I would have. It's early in the game, you have a good wait, and the hand is weak without riichi and potential bonuses. If you're not going to riichi, I would have folded once the dealer declared riichi rather than cut the 6p you drew and deal into a potential ippatsu. Further, the next turn you draw 4s and discard it, instead of keeping it and dropping 1s. If you had kept the 4s, then you would have had iipeko in this hand when winning off the discarded 2s.

South 2. Should have thrown my hand instead of riiching in turn 9? (-12000 is a big ouch here)

I probably would have declared riichi as soon as I reached tenpai, discarding 2s instead of 5s (since it doesn't have the potential to pair with the red 5s). However, I don't think it would be horrible to not riichi here, since part of your wait (the 9p) is safe against the other guy. Since there are still two 9p live, it wouldn't surprise me to see someone trying to defend discard one. Even though your hand is weak without riichi, you still pick up the other guys riichi stick and set him back further.

Managing to recreate that ittsu wasn't likely due to there only being one 1s left, so if that's why you didn't riichi, I disagree, even though you amazingly got the last 1s the very next turn.

South 3-2. The hand that started the discussion. Lesson here is how awful my discarding was. Interesting points: Hell wait vs Furiten fresh tanki, and how to gauge what level of hand you need to get out of deep trouble late in the game.

After drawing the third 2s, I think I would have discarded the 6m instead, as the [78999]p shape has five waiting tiles to becoming two sets instead of four, and the dots look dangerous. Further, if you keep the dots in your hand, and only break them up after you happen to draw another 7p or 8p, then you don't end up furiten. After drawing the third 8s, I really think you have to discard the 7p and take the sanankou hand if it comes. Ending up furiten on that 7p is no good, that's massively decreasing the chances you can win on it, and although no 7p have been discarded, none of the high numbers of that suit have been discarded at all except from you, so it's not unreasonable to think two or three might already be in the other player's hands. The chances of the 7p turning out well just seem bad enough that it doesn't hold up to a mangan/haneman (with self-draw or red five).

If we assume that you discarded the 7p to wait on 5m, then when you draw the 3m, you improve your wait a bit by discarding, which surprisingly works out for you when you draw the third 2m. While that sounds nice in retrospect, I think it's still more likely than completing the suuankou. Although I do like yakuman, and I don't know if I wouldn't just go for it when it looks like I'm going to lose anyway.

***

It seems like there is a way to make a Tenhou replay link go straight to a specific hand (maybe even straight to a specific turn), but I do not know what it is. If anyone does, I'd appreciate being informed.

EDIT: Nevermind. I saw the link to this match in the other thread that goes straight to a given hand, and it's the "ts" parameter that selects the hand (with 0 being the first hand, apparently).

Later, I shall make use of this thread as a Rage Bunker.

South 2:

Instead of discarding the 5s, I would have discarded the 2s.
At this point it's very improbable to get the ittsu, since only one 1s remains on (ok, you DID get it).
By discarding the 2s, you would have a good chance to get iipeikou: 3s + 6s = four live tiles.

4 chances to get 1 more han is better than a single chance to get 2 han.

Anyway, I would probably have reached here. You're East and it's always nice to get the renchan. Defending players may discard 9p: it's safe for North (and South, and in general) and your early red 5p discard let thinks you don't have pinzu tiles.

[2012/08/30/般南喰赤]

A:NoName(-32.0)
B:KylinZ(-17.0)
C:団長(+41.0)
D:KyuuAA(+8.0)

http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2012083019gm-0 ... 84980&tw=3

Ugh. I got robbed... especially from my Chanta, Shousangen, Honitsu tenpai. This would have been the game killer. I have to admit: dropping the 8-pin was risky. But darn it, it was Daisaigen. (South 2-0)

Player to the left. Hell of a comeback though. I even tried closing out the game in the last 3 hands. But alas, it just did not happen.

===

East 1-0: I have the partial habit of waiting on my riichi. On average, I usually wait anywhere between 2 through 7 full turns. The variation on the timing may occur on a whim. It seems as if the left player 団長 had a similar idea. Wait a while, feel for it, then call riichi. And too close for comfort with my 8-sou. When I got Tsumo here, I remember thinking: "What the heck was I waiting for?"

East 2-0: Here. Called riichi, seeing the 7-man discarded for the right player Mr NoName.

East 3-0: Pushed the hand to win and claim the 2 riichi sticks, and I had the material to do it.

South 1-2: Not 100% sure why I even rushed this Ittsu, but I did. However, the dual end wait for 3-pin and 7-pin to even complete that yaku. Well, that did play a factor into that.

South 2-1: The temptation to go Honitsu was here, although, it was too far for a decision like that. That required splitting the toitsu 5-pin; and thankfully, I was not the one to bit the haneman bullet on that, as I would have dropped the other one later on.

South 3-2: I made it a point to end the Dealer's potential run here.

As for the remaining two. Well, the objective is to end the hands quickly; and it did not matter what value. The mangan tsumo for 団長 gave him the opportunity to steal the game, as he had done so. It was enough to simply put me just under the 30K line.

East 1-0: I see nothing wrong with the damaten.
Your hand could have been improved with a 3 or 4 man to get a better wait, pinfu, and 1 or 2 dora.

East 3-0: Calling the West was quite reckless, considering the hand can hardly be finished without Hatsu and is not going to worth much.

South 4-0: I'm not sure why you keep discarding 8man while you have tiles that are 100% safe against C and less damaging for your hand.

Shirluban wrote:East 3-0: Calling the West was quite reckless, considering the hand can hardly be finished without Hatsu and is not going to worth much.

South 4-0: I'm not sure why you keep discarding 8man while you have tiles that are 100% safe against C and less damaging for your hand.

For both of those, I'll simply say: "Decisions on a whim". For the former (East 3), I pressed urgency to get to tenpai ASAP. Why? Because I felt it. So, I did it.

I'm sure we've had games won/lost with a point difference of 1000 or less.