3-player riichi question

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FixxeR
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3-player riichi question

Post by FixxeR » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:49 pm

Hi there,

we were playing with 3 players last week for a bit, and were uncertain if declaring doras interrupts the round (like other calls do). For example, when someone declares riichi and either of the next players declare dora during that go-around, does cancel out ippatsu?

The same question applies for rare cases like chiho or renho. I don\'t play 3p mahjong all that much so I haven\'t been able to see how it\'s implemented at tenhou.net. Didn\'t find the info regarding this at japanese-mahjong.com 3p guide either.

Thanks in advance!

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Tom Sloper
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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by Tom Sloper » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:22 pm

FixxeR wrote:we were playing with 3 players last week for a bit, and were uncertain if declaring doras interrupts the round (like other calls do).
I\'m blanking. What is "declaring dora"?
Is that like melding a flower in other forms of mahjong? If so, then no, that doesn\'t interrupt the round like calling a discard for exposure.
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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by WorTeX » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:40 am

yes, \"declaring dora\" means putting north tiles to the side to act as doras, it interrupts the go-around, you can\'t get ippatsu, you can\'t get renhou/chiho, and you can\'t declare 9 tile abortive draw if someone has declared dora.

PS. You can also win on an opponents dora declare, so it\'s kind of a really good tile to wait also.

PPS. if the dora indicator is west, the declared doras count as two han.

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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by FixxeR » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:17 am

Thanks WorTeX. Didn\'t know it was possible to win off someone\'s dora tile other than for kokushi musou :)

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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by hirohurl » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:11 pm

Oh yes! I got hit with Kokushimuso (from a ko player, thank goodness) when I laid out my North dollar in a game on Friday night, quite early in too.

The dora-declaration/ippatsu question is an interesting one. I\'m not sure that it has occurred in all the years I\'ve played 3pmj... Thanks for the input WorTex. I\'ll check up on Friday and see if that is how \"we\" do it in Hiroshima, and report back.

@ FixxeR Thanks for checking out my website. There are still some bits that need to be ironed out, and it looks as if I need to post another clarification to the rules!

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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by hirohurl » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:25 pm

WorTeX wrote:yes, "declaring dora" means putting north tiles to the side to act as doras, it interrupts the go-around, you can\'t get ippatsu, you can\'t get renhou/chiho, and you can\'t declare 9 tile abortive draw if someone has declared dora.
I checked with our Japanese players and the consensus was that:

1. putting north dora to the side is not an "event" if done by a player other than the one who just declared riichi and does not eliminate ippatsu...

2. however, if the player who declared riichi pulls a north dora from the wall first time round, Ippatsu disappears (unless he is waiting for a north tile to go out on - in which case it ippatsu will be valid, but the north won\'t count as a dora... unless the mekuri pai or the one beneath it shows west!!).

Cheers!

David H

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burke
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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by burke » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:34 pm

Hi David,

I have a couple of questions as well:

1. As described on your website, Sanrenkoh (three identical runs-of-three, all of the same suit) and Iisoosanjyun (the hand contains three similar runs-of-three) seem to be the same thing? The illustrations are even more confusing since they basically illustrate the same situation.

2. Are the Furiten rules in 3 player mahjong the same as in regular four player riichi? The rules are a bit vague on this point and seem to imply that only the tiles that have been discarded are off-limits for Ron.

Thanks for writing the rules and making them available!

If anyone needs a nice pdf of the rules, I found one here.

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Shirluban
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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by Shirluban » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:34 pm

burke wrote:1. As described on your website, Sanrenkoh (three identical runs-of-three, all of the same suit) and Iisoosanjyun (the hand contains three similar runs-of-three) seem to be the same thing? The illustrations are even more confusing since they basically illustrate the same situation.
Illustrations are confusing, but right:ohmy:

San ren kou is three consecutive koutsu (pon) in the same suit.
5-dot 5-dot 5-dot - 6-dot 6-dot 6-dot - 7-dot 7-dot 7-dot
Iisou san jun is three identical shuntsu (chii) in the same suit.
2-crak 3-crak 4-crak - 2-crak 3-crak 4-crak - 2-crak 3-crak 4-crak

If all these tiles are concealed, it\'s technically the same.

For point #2, I\'ll let people who play 3 player rules answer.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules 2022
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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burke
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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by burke » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:38 am

Shirluban wrote:Illustrations are confusing, but right:ohmy:

San ren kou is three consecutive koutsu (pon) in the same suit.

Iisou san jun is three identical shuntsu (chii) in the same suit.
Thanks, but I\'m still confused by the rules.

The text for Iisoosanjyun says "The hand contains three similar runs-of-three [i.e. chi]. (A high scoring hand because it also contains Sananko.)" Earlier in the rules Sananko is described as "Three sets of three-of-a-kind [i.e. pon], hidden only." Can one claim two different Yaku at the same time, where in one the tiles are arranged as chi and in the other as pon?

The text for Sanrenkoh is incorrect: "Three identical runs-of-three, all of the same suit". Elsewhere in the rules "runs-of-three" is used to denote chi not pon.

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Re:3-player riichi question

Post by Shirluban » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:48 am

burke wrote:Can one claim two different Yaku at the same time, where in one the tiles are arranged as chi and in the other as pon?
Normally, with 4 players rules, no.
But 3p and 4p rules are not the same, so I can\'t answer due to my lack of knowledge about 3p :(
I suppose David would say "This yaku (if concealed) is equivalent to San an kou with more restrictions, so it worth more despite it\'s not San an kou."
We\'ll have to wait for David\'s answer.

---
Yes, San ren kou is not made of "runs-of-three" but of "three-of-a-kind".
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules 2022
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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