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Is it flipped before the discard?

After?

Does it matter if you draw it yourself / take it from another discard / \'upgrade\' a pon?

Sorry for a possibly silly question as my first post, but it seems that I can\'t find an answer, and on tenhou, I seem to see it before a discard when I draw into it, and don\'t see it until another players\' discard-taken-kan has discarded.

Thank you so much for your help. None of my friends are too sure, and some are totally sure one way, and totally sure the other way.

It seems there is no official rule for that. But many people open the dora as soon as Kong is called. So you can see the dora as you Kong.

Personally, I played with my friends and we did the opposite. The kan-dora was shown only after you discard a tile after the kong.

Yes it differs somewhat.

In EMA-rules the tile is always flipped before the discard in other rules it is flipped after. Sometimes it is flipped before on a concealed kan but after on a melded one.

So all in all do what you find easiest/most fun :)

The kan dora is in effect immediately when a kan is made.
The precise split-second timing of turning the kan dora indicator over (before or after taking the replacement tile, before or after the kan player\'s discard) is little more than a matter of convenience and happenstance.

Tom Sloper wrote:The precise split-second timing of turning the kan dora indicator over (before or after taking the replacement tile, before or after the kan player\'s discard) is little more than a matter of convenience and happenstance.

I\'m not sure I agree with that.

If it is flipped before discard, it could have an effect on your discard. if you have two pairs and you want to break one, if you have two open-ends and want to break one..

edit: hey, I know you! love your book. :)

MashMashy wrote:

Tom Sloper wrote:The precise split-second timing of turning the kan dora indicator over (before or after taking the replacement tile, before or after the kan player\'s discard) is little more than a matter of convenience and happenstance.

1. If it is flipped before discard, it could have an effect on your discard.
2. hey, I know you! love your book. :)

1. Right. It would be inconvenient in that case to discard before flipping the kan dora indicator, so don\'t. (^_^)
2. Cool, thanks! :cheer:

Tom Sloper wrote:1. Right. It would be inconvenient in that case to discard before flipping the kan dora indicator, so don\'t. (^_^)

So, is there a standard answer to the "flip before discard" / "flip after discard" question? I see both all the time.

(and, while I\'m at it, open pinfu / open tanyao)

I know people play all sorts of ways, but is there a "base" answer for these? so you could say "well, we play open tanyao" because otherwise people would assume closed.

I believe open tanyao but not open pinfu is standard (it is also the combination I prefer). For flip before/after discard, I don\'t know. However, when playing without a wall (e.g. Washizu Mahjong), the rule has to say whether to take the new dora indicator before or after the supplement tile is drawn.

Like I said, there is no official rule for it. But most of the people and many Jansou (a place to play mahjong) as well as online games flip the dora when you make a kan.

Well, as Tom said, since the kan-dora is in effect immediately after a kan is made, I suppose I would flip it as soon as i laid down my kan-tiles... I actually never thought there was a question there.

I believe it\'s normal to see if you get more dora tiles immediately after declaring the kan or picking the replacement tile.

BTW, I just realized 4Winds Mahjong doesn\'t add a kan-dora when you declare a kan :(

agree with you. But somehow, when I used to play with friends we opened the dora after discarding a tile.

This could be considered one of those \"local rules\". I play at Toupai-oh, and they flip it immediately after a kan.

BTW, I just realized 4Winds Mahjong doesn\'t add a kan-dora when you declare a kan

You need to assign a score to kan-dora (generally 1 han, but you can set it to anything you want). However, 4Winds Mahjong has a lot of bugs in it (even the newest version), so hopefully after I wrote XUL-Mahjong, my new program can be used instead, which is Free Software.

Personally, I\'ve taken to revealing it before discard for a closed Kan and revealing it after discard for open or added Kan.

This way, closed hands are favored, as the rest of the rule set tends to do.

sevenup wrote:agree with you. But somehow, when I used to play with friends we opened the dora after discarding a tile.

This could be considered one of those "local rules". I play at Toupai-oh, and they flip it immediately after a kan.

Well, this isn\'t so much a "rule" as it is a "table practice." The precise timing of when you should ideally do it (as already discussed) is immediately, so you can have the information before discarding.
If you forget to flip it before discarding, flip it after.
There\'s probably no written rule. There are no mahjong police to arrest you for doing it wrongly.
The programmers of computer mahjong games have their own reasons for making their games do it the way they do.

The Japanese Wikipedia actually makes a mention of this - there are two common methods, depending on the house rules:

1. Kan-dora is revealed before the discard, no matter what.
2. Kan-dora is revealed before the discard for a closed kan; revealed after the discard for an open kan.