What rules do you use? 3.0 (2020 edition)

Japanese Reach Mahjong Rules. Strategy, news, sets - anything!

Moderator: Shirluban

Post Reply
Referee
Expert Reacher
Expert Reacher
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:24 pm

What rules do you use? 3.0 (2020 edition)

Post by Referee » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:46 am

In a recent thread, user or2az said they weren't in time to answer to similar threads that have been here before, in 2012 and 2017. So I thought I would go and open one again.
I'll be following this nice table that user Shirluban also posted in the aforementioned recent thread.

Note: I don't have a group of people to play mahjong regularly, but the following is how I would like it to explain it if I had one. Of course, I am aware that when playing on a league or tournament, you can't really select the rules you want.
  • Kuitan-Atozuke: Ari Ari (or in english, both are allowed)
  • Kuikae Nashi
  • 25000 starting points, goal is 30000. Uma is 20/10. I find this values all positions in a nice increasing scale, 30 from 1st to 2nd, 20 from 2nd to 3rd, 10 from 3rd to 4th
  • Uma is divided on ties. On rare 3-way ties I would go with 7 each, increasing the 20 uma for an extreme position to 21
  • Riichi bets go to the last winner (They go to the winner anyway all the time, don't they?)
  • Renchan tenpai. Agari/Tenpai has some merits. That flash version I use sometimes seems to have Renchan positive, which means if all four players are tenpai, winds move.
  • Standard 300 points continuation, 3000 points noten
  • All doras are in, red fives (if the set has them, of course) should be 111
  • Ron, Pon/Kan, Chi preference. All rons accepted and paid
  • Temporary furiten ends with your discard, not a skipped goaround
  • Ryanhan Shibari I'm ambivalent at the time, really. Probably included
  • No abortive draws, only four kans allowed. I can understand the four riichi one, but then, fourth player knows the situation and still can choose whether to riichi
  • Pao on three dragons, four winds only. The continuances are paid by the discarder (I hadn't really thought of that). Rinshan Kaihou is tsumo
  • Agari Yame I'm a bit ambivalent too, but tending to a Nashi
  • Bankruptcy on -100, you need to be able to afford the riichi stick.
  • West round sudden death, overflowing into North if needed. I like the CRM rule on ending only on a win (BUT if it's an oya win, the game goes on, if Agari Yame is off)
  • Yakitori, Wareme, Aotenjou are all Nashi
  • Kiriage Mangan Nashi
  • Kazoe Yakuman is on, multiple yakuman stack, but of course Kazoe is incompatible with them, because you don't count han on a yakuman
  • Furiten Riichi is OK, but you need a theoretical next draw (it could get skipped, that's not your fault)
  • Ankan after Riichi only if it doesn't change the hand structure or wait
  • Chankan for 13 Orphans not allowed. All Green can be dragonless
  • Haitei Rinshan is NOT a thing
  • Nagashi Mangan is a yaku
  • Keishiki tenpai is OK, but not a 5th tile tenpai
  • Open Riichi Nashi
  • Standard Yaku values. Although not technically true, I would explain Ryanpeikou as 1+1+1, as I think it makes it easier to understand and more consistent with other yaku
  • Daichisei is double yakuman
  • Shiisanpuutaa and Shiisuupuutaa Nashi
  • Paarenchan... no clue. It's complicated. No other unusual yaku
  • Standard fu count. Chiitoi is 25, "open pinfu" is 2, Rinshan is a tsumo, tsumo fu voided if pinfu yaku scored, double wind is 4
Wow, the list is long... So what about other people? And what do you think of this set?

User avatar
Ozball
Expert Reacher
Expert Reacher
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: What rules do you use? 3.0 (2020 edition)

Post by Ozball » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:17 am

Most of my in-person play has been at the Melbourne Mahjong Meetup (till COVID-19 prevented things for the foreseeable future), where we usually play standard Tenhou Rules, or WRC Rules in the lead up to tournaments.

However, personally, if I can to pick my own ruleset I'd be going with:
(Note this is mostly WRC, with some modifications, and a touch of Tenhou)
  • Ari-Ari (Kuitan-Atozuke)
  • No Swap Calling (Kuikae)
  • 30k in, 30k out (no oka) - Uma I'm variable on, but nothing overly large, eg 10-5 (split on ties)
  • Riichi bets go to final winner
  • Agari/Tenpai Renchan (standard continuance on win/tenpai)
  • Bonus sticks = 300pts
  • Call preference (Ron -> Pon -> Chi)
  • Temporary Furiten till next draw
  • Abortive Draws (9terminals9honours, 4 kans, 4 starting winds, 4 riichi, triple ron)
  • Pao on Daisangen, and Four Wins (Big Four yes, Small Four... not sure, but probably)
  • West Sudden Death (game ends if someone gets above 30k in West)
  • Kiriage Mangan (just for ease of calculations)
  • Kazoe Yakuman
  • Stackable and Double Yakuman
  • No Open Riichi
  • No optional/varient Yakus (eg no Shiisanpuutaa, Daisharin etc)
  • Standard Fu
  • Red Dora - Depends, I'd prefer no, but it does add more variance to the game. So the more casual the game, the more likely I would be to include them. Regardless, 3 Reds, 1 of each suit's 5 tile.
  • Agari Yame - Same as above, the more casual the more likely I am to include this.
  • Bankruptcy - Same as above. Pairs with Agari Yame, if one is on, the other is on.
A couple notes:
Referee: WRC rules actually state that riichi bets left on the table stay there! So there are cases where they don't go to the winner :o

I have a soft spot for JPML A rules (see the link in the first post for what that entails), yes, they're weird, yes, they're the "no-fun" rules. But it's a different style of play, and I enjoy it on occasion.

A lot of my choices would vary based on the style of game, the more casual the more "random" rules would appear. So while I wouldn't normally use variant/local yaku, I'd be ok with including them in a very casual game. However, in a serious league/tournament style format, I'm more of a no nonsense style. Red Fives are the exception here, as there are tournaments that use them, eg M-League, so while I'd prefer to not have them, I'd also be ok with them.
"Furiten is the most holiest!" - Garthe Nelson

Online Ranks
Tenhou Rating: Ozball - 1608 - 2nd dan


Old Ranks
MFC: オズボール - Seiryu (Blue Dragon) Master
MFC JPML Rank: 3rd kyu
Ron2 Rating: Ozball - 1335 League: Bronze

User avatar
or2az
Silver Boarder
Silver Boarder
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:10 pm
Location: USA

Re: What rules do you use? 3.0 (2020 edition)

Post by or2az » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:35 am

One more question on Agari Yame regarding this piece in Barts Guide, to satisfy my understanding.
"Under the optional Agari Yame rule, if the dealer (east) wins the final hand of the match and they are leading on points they can choose whether to play a continuance as usual (and risk losing) or finish the match early (and ensure their victory).
An uncommon addition to the above rule is Tenpai Yame. This allows a leading dealer in the final hand to end the match if the hand resulted in a draw and the dealer was Tenpai (ready)."

My question:
If agari yame is off and the hand keeps going, does it only continue with dealer wins, or with dealer tenpai as well?
If agari yame is on, can the leading dealer choose to end the match with a tenpai draw, or only with a win.?
( in other words, Is tenpai yame included in agari yame?)

For consistency, I am listing the rules I follow with my groups here as well as in the previous expanded thread.
http://reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewto ... 020#p60998

AGARI YAME--ALLOWED
ATAMA HANE, double/triple ron, one winner only, closest to discarder in turn order.
No red fives. Dora and ura dora--yes.
NOTEN 3000 PTS. Honba 300 pts
KUIKAE-(chow switching) NOT ALLOWED.
KUITAN- open simples-ALLOWED
ATOZUKE--ALLOWED (winning tile yields the yaku)
RENCHAN (continuances) Win/Tenpai, East and South rounds.
RYANHAN SHIBARI--YES
BANKRUPTCY- Game Ends, don't like negative scores.
We start with 25,000 and need to reach 30,000 to win.
Otherwise, a complete West round, no sudden death.
Call Precedence: RON over PON over CHI
ABORTIVE DRAWS:
1) Four wind barrage (same wind, first 4 discards)
2) Four riichi on the same hand
3) Nine or more different terminals and honor tiles.
OPTIONAL YAKU:
Nagashi Mangan-all terminal/honor discards, none called
Shiisan Puta--13 unrelated tiles
Paa Renchan- we use 8 honba on the table (I know, I know)
San Renko- three consecutive pungs, same suit. (I know, I know)

User avatar
Ozball
Expert Reacher
Expert Reacher
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: What rules do you use? 3.0 (2020 edition)

Post by Ozball » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:06 am

or2az wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:35 am
My question:
If agari yame is off and the hand keeps going, does it only continue with dealer wins, or with dealer tenpai as well?
If agari yame is on, can the leading dealer choose to end the match with a tenpai draw, or only with a win.?
( in other words, Is tenpai yame included in agari yame?)
My understanding would be if agari yame is off, then continuations happen as they would normally in any other round. ie dealer tenpai would continue the game. (Unless tenpai yame is specifically allowed, see below)
If agari yame is ON, then it's a bit more of a grey area. I know that Tenhou Tournament Lobbies includes tenpai yame as a separate rule and it does NOT require agari yame (but does require tenpai renchan). My take would be that if agari yame is on, then unless specified, you can NOT stop the game on a tenpai, only a win. So, by default, tenpai yame is not included in agari yame. That's just my thoughts/stance though.
"Furiten is the most holiest!" - Garthe Nelson

Online Ranks
Tenhou Rating: Ozball - 1608 - 2nd dan


Old Ranks
MFC: オズボール - Seiryu (Blue Dragon) Master
MFC JPML Rank: 3rd kyu
Ron2 Rating: Ozball - 1335 League: Bronze

Post Reply