riichi now....or wait a while?

[or2az]

I haven't been in many situations lately where I had to really think about what plan of action to take. Here's one of them. Glad I wasn't on the clock.
I made it into South 3 with a small lead for the first time in the match. Now there was a choice to make, I think.

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I could discard the or the , call riichi, and wait for the , of which there were 3 available. Normally, this would be my preferred move without any hesitation, but I began to think about things I learned over the course of time. I remembered someones explanation on how, sometimes, it might be advisable to take a step back from tenpai, if you had a good wait to get back to tenpai, and a better wait to win once you got back to tenpai, or something like that.

I wondered, could this be one of those times? If I riichi now, with 57 tiles remaining, I could get dealer "ronned" very easily, especially if someone was holding those and that would hurt (besides really pissing me off).
Maybe I should ditch the and rely on the cracks for the win. Tanyao would now be in the picture but the was also the dora. I wasn't quite sure what to do.
Right or wrong, I chose to get rid of the dots. The hand filled in nicely and came to an interesting (and favorable) conclusion. Immediately after riichi, I drew that single haku pocchi. Riichi, ippatsu, tsumo, tanyao, 12,000 dealer points. Blew the game wide open, quite a surprise.

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Mahjong sure is fun----Saki

[saitym]

I would probably riichi without doubt for this hand as is dora and although one is gone and its a wait close to the dora, it's still suji-machi with the discard. I almost definitely riichi any hand that has one dora regardless of the wait (unless it's a wait with only two tiles left). Another option however if the wasn't dora, would be to keep the . However in this particular circumstance, I would still discard the to create the suji wait and riichi when tenpai because wait with in the discard is considered a relatively 'good' wait. if the was lets say (or any other penchan) I would probably discard the if it's this early on and not the to try to get at least tanyao if I was a 'child'. but because you are oya, I would aim for the fastest tenpai possible.

From your situation if you drew the first, I would probably riichi on the even if it's a dora (or not)

[or2az]

Understood. I still have a couple of questions about the since you mention it often and I never gave it a second thought when I tossed it.
I know a in the discards probably indicates that one doesn't have a or a in their hand but it doesn't say anything about not having an , so even though I created a suji wait, I didn't think it would fool anyone. It wouldn't fool me into tossing a and I don't have that much expertise with that suji stuff.

wait with in the discard is considered a relatively 'good' wait.

So what makes it so good?

You also mention that

Another option however if the wasn't dora, would be to keep the .

I can't see why I would keep it. It was a very isolated tile. What would I discard instead?
Unless you were thinking of tossing the (for tanyao) and then the after that, but wouldn't that also be taking a step back from tenpai, which you frowned upon later in the post? (and now that I kept that 4, what do I do with it?)

Thanks for your input. Again, always appreciated.

[saitym]

When there is a riichi from oya, the average points that you lose if you deal in is around 9000 points so unless you have a good reason, you should bail or at least play 'safe' while pushing for tenpai. Your discards have very little information if you riichi now with the only suji as . Suji is all about probability and because of the , ron on or on a double sided wait is furiten so it is more 'safe and unlikely ' to get ronned compared to other tiles which are not sujis. Even if you're is being held as a triplet already there is a chance that early on when there is very liitle information in your discard that it will come out if the person is bailing because it is the safer option compared to non suji tile, and if you have three, you can avoid dealing for three discards if it goes through.

The fast also means you are unlikely to deal into shape, because your 'unlikely' to throw early from shape so it is more likely to come out even if the is dora.

when I mentioned keeping the , I did indeed mean throwing the to try to avoid riichi on just riichi only as the yaku to get


from here there are very many possibilities to go to tanyao, pinfu or both which is much better than getting to tenpai then throwing away respectively in turn. sometimes you have to go down a shanten to increase your probability of winning or increase you hand potential.

one example relevant to your hand is lets say you discard instead of , draw and discard and next turn draw to tenpai on a tanki if you throw either or


tsumo

it's actually better in the long run in this case to throw the and not take tenpai to get



where if you draw you get at least a double sided wait.

This is one example of going down a shanten to increase you hand value as well as your overall wait. Going down a shanten is generally more justifiable the earlier you do it and when it is a situation where you hand value or wait is likely get better.


My last point about going for tenpai quickly is the difference between oya and child. As Oya, your biggest weapon is riichi, no matter how awful you hand is, if you riichi, the best option for other player is to bail as I have alrady explained that from them, if they deal in, the average point loss is 9000 which is massive therefore generally it's generally better to try to get tenpai as quick as possible an riichi
If you are child, other players have more of a reason to push against you so you generally aim towards a good wait when and if you riichi. A fast riichi which is a suji wait is a 'good' wait but if the was and the wait is not a suji, you might as well aim for a good wait by going down a shanten if your not going to riichi anyway on a wait. That what I meant for the end of my post