So I was playing on Tenhou and reached 3 kyuu because of this game:
http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2014113020gm-0 ... dc7fa&tw=0
I feel I was lucky with draws and all...
As I always say I´m not a good player I would like some input in my game, just to improve. Iｆ you have patience to see it, Ok, and thanks beforehand. If not, well it´s normal, a full game is long...
Tenhou gameplay
Moderator: Shirluban
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Ignatius
- Silver Boarder
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:54 pm
- Location: (From Spain) In Ireland (EU) since 2016, so lazy I didn´t update this until 2019... (私は初心者だし、よろしく)
Tenhou gameplay
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.
Re: Tenhou gameplay
E1: Your discard order after riichi is strange. Haku should have left the hand first, followed by 4p. You keep both of those tiles for too long, despite them being fairly or perfectly safe, and completely or fairly useless to your hand. After that you are low on safe tiles, so it's correct to push to the shape you had in the end.
E2: That discard of the 6m on the second turn is terrible. It's a top useful tile. The south pair is discarded too early as well - in fact, because you lost the 56m, you should never have discarded the Souths. With this hand, the discard order should be West, 9m, Hatsu, 9s, 1m, 2p, South, South, Chun, 1m, Riichi discarding 3s.
E3: Fine discards for most of the way. I'd argue that discarding the 8p dora while iishanten was wrong. You can improve your hand's value by drawing 7p, or outright draw 8p and riichi with two dora. In tenpai, riichi discarding the red 5s was terrible. The 4445 shape is a great three-way wait, while the 1112344 shape only actually waits on 14m for a total of three tiles, worse than a normal kanchan or penchan wait. You also halve the hand's value by getting rid of the red 5. Discarding the 4m should be elementary.
E4: Fine starting discards. On the 5th turn, it's better to drop 5s instead of 8s, since the 5s is both more useful than 8s and closer to the dora.
S1: The straight path to chinitsu was good. Discarding the 1s instead of chun on the 10 turn was terrible. You should have kept it for a much more flexible iishanten. It would have let you chi the 3s immediately after, and discard 7s for a 4 way wait worth 12000 points. I do not understand your later 2s discard either; it's not any safer than the useless 6p. There's no reason to call kan on 4s either, since you lose the possibility of closed chinitsu + menzen tsumo + dora for baiman, and the new dora helps the player in riichi the most.
S1-1: Keeping the Chun instead of the 2m on the second turn was bad. The 2m was useful for both the 14m wait it provides, and Tanyao Chiitoitsu. You seem to be too focused on chiitoitsu/toitoi instead even when the hand starts to look more like a sequence-based hand. Discarding the 2s is very ineffective since it gives you 3 tiles towards tanyao and 2 tiles towards a riichi-only, while a pair only gives you 2 tiles towards tanyao. Remember that too many pairs is ineffective for a non-chiitoitsu hand, since each pair only gives 2 additional tiles towards tenpai while even a kanchan or penchan wait gives 4. This hand isn't close to chiitoitsu; for most of the time it's 2-shanten for that while a standard hand is only 1-shanten. Discarding the 5s after drawing 4s is also really bad; it would be better to discard 45m for an iishanten on both chiitoitsu and standard. But anyways, what the hand should have become is a 233345m66p23345s iishanten, drawing the 4s to tenpai, and declaring riichi with a 3m discard, for a Riichi Pinfu with possible Tanyao.
S2: This standard hand isn't that close to chanta, and it would be most common to see it become a Hatsu only that you play carefully to a fast win. Therefore it would be better to start by discarding honor tiles. Getting rid of the 6s is okay, but the 6m should have been kept. The path to honitsu you take afterwards is really nice. But I don't think riichi is necessary, since the hand is already at least mangan, the wait isn't that amazing, and your discards aren't as suspicious as a typical honitsu so your opponents will be off guard unless you riichi. (Although this level of players don't seem to be on guard even against riichi, but it's good to learn good habits early)
S3: I understand that you want to get rid of the dangerous dora early. That's pretty good thinking. However, in this hand it was discarded too early, since it's still a lot more useful than the terminals and honors in your hand and likely to be helpful in winning fast. The rest of the hand is good play.
S4: This hand is good play until the 4m draw which is followed by the 1m discard. I'd rather discard 6m, since it allows 4578p draws to a solid pinfu tenpai, and 6p can be called or drewn for sanshoku. Only backfires are 39p, which still give you a tenpai albeit a bad one. And in the tenpai you got, there was no need to declare riichi since you have the Pinfu yaku secured and win the game with anything.
If you need more clarification or explanation about specific parts, do ask.
E2: That discard of the 6m on the second turn is terrible. It's a top useful tile. The south pair is discarded too early as well - in fact, because you lost the 56m, you should never have discarded the Souths. With this hand, the discard order should be West, 9m, Hatsu, 9s, 1m, 2p, South, South, Chun, 1m, Riichi discarding 3s.
E3: Fine discards for most of the way. I'd argue that discarding the 8p dora while iishanten was wrong. You can improve your hand's value by drawing 7p, or outright draw 8p and riichi with two dora. In tenpai, riichi discarding the red 5s was terrible. The 4445 shape is a great three-way wait, while the 1112344 shape only actually waits on 14m for a total of three tiles, worse than a normal kanchan or penchan wait. You also halve the hand's value by getting rid of the red 5. Discarding the 4m should be elementary.
E4: Fine starting discards. On the 5th turn, it's better to drop 5s instead of 8s, since the 5s is both more useful than 8s and closer to the dora.
S1: The straight path to chinitsu was good. Discarding the 1s instead of chun on the 10 turn was terrible. You should have kept it for a much more flexible iishanten. It would have let you chi the 3s immediately after, and discard 7s for a 4 way wait worth 12000 points. I do not understand your later 2s discard either; it's not any safer than the useless 6p. There's no reason to call kan on 4s either, since you lose the possibility of closed chinitsu + menzen tsumo + dora for baiman, and the new dora helps the player in riichi the most.
S1-1: Keeping the Chun instead of the 2m on the second turn was bad. The 2m was useful for both the 14m wait it provides, and Tanyao Chiitoitsu. You seem to be too focused on chiitoitsu/toitoi instead even when the hand starts to look more like a sequence-based hand. Discarding the 2s is very ineffective since it gives you 3 tiles towards tanyao and 2 tiles towards a riichi-only, while a pair only gives you 2 tiles towards tanyao. Remember that too many pairs is ineffective for a non-chiitoitsu hand, since each pair only gives 2 additional tiles towards tenpai while even a kanchan or penchan wait gives 4. This hand isn't close to chiitoitsu; for most of the time it's 2-shanten for that while a standard hand is only 1-shanten. Discarding the 5s after drawing 4s is also really bad; it would be better to discard 45m for an iishanten on both chiitoitsu and standard. But anyways, what the hand should have become is a 233345m66p23345s iishanten, drawing the 4s to tenpai, and declaring riichi with a 3m discard, for a Riichi Pinfu with possible Tanyao.
S2: This standard hand isn't that close to chanta, and it would be most common to see it become a Hatsu only that you play carefully to a fast win. Therefore it would be better to start by discarding honor tiles. Getting rid of the 6s is okay, but the 6m should have been kept. The path to honitsu you take afterwards is really nice. But I don't think riichi is necessary, since the hand is already at least mangan, the wait isn't that amazing, and your discards aren't as suspicious as a typical honitsu so your opponents will be off guard unless you riichi. (Although this level of players don't seem to be on guard even against riichi, but it's good to learn good habits early)
S3: I understand that you want to get rid of the dangerous dora early. That's pretty good thinking. However, in this hand it was discarded too early, since it's still a lot more useful than the terminals and honors in your hand and likely to be helpful in winning fast. The rest of the hand is good play.
S4: This hand is good play until the 4m draw which is followed by the 1m discard. I'd rather discard 6m, since it allows 4578p draws to a solid pinfu tenpai, and 6p can be called or drewn for sanshoku. Only backfires are 39p, which still give you a tenpai albeit a bad one. And in the tenpai you got, there was no need to declare riichi since you have the Pinfu yaku secured and win the game with anything.
If you need more clarification or explanation about specific parts, do ask.
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Ignatius
- Silver Boarder
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:54 pm
- Location: (From Spain) In Ireland (EU) since 2016, so lazy I didn´t update this until 2019... (私は初心者だし、よろしく)
Re: Tenhou gameplay
I'm ok with your input. I will rewatch the match two or three times more.
When I discarded, on East 2, the 6m I thought: What the hell I've done!
In East 3 I thought about to keep the 8, I was unsure to which choice was better and ended throwing it. And it was not the best option maybe.
The problem is I get kinda anxious, or nervouscited when playing. Fortunately it ended well. But I have a lot to improve. I need to get used to play to haver a calmer state of mind when playing.
In South 1 I regretted throwing the 1s. I realized I made a bad move just after I discarded it. This happens a lot, to realize an error just when you've done it. And when playing mahjong, more, at least in mi case.
As I've said, I'll rewatch the match a few times more, with this info on mind, of course.
I'm extremely grateful for the time you put on that text Iapetus.
When I discarded, on East 2, the 6m I thought: What the hell I've done!
In East 3 I thought about to keep the 8, I was unsure to which choice was better and ended throwing it. And it was not the best option maybe.
The problem is I get kinda anxious, or nervouscited when playing. Fortunately it ended well. But I have a lot to improve. I need to get used to play to haver a calmer state of mind when playing.
In South 1 I regretted throwing the 1s. I realized I made a bad move just after I discarded it. This happens a lot, to realize an error just when you've done it. And when playing mahjong, more, at least in mi case.
As I've said, I'll rewatch the match a few times more, with this info on mind, of course.
I'm extremely grateful for the time you put on that text Iapetus.
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.
Re: Tenhou gameplay
Hello Ignatius, I finally have the time to work on this thread.
I've seen your whole game and I believe most of the points are highlighted by Iapetus.
The issue here is not quite each individual hand per se but more of your foundations, basic concepts etc.
Your most important thing to focus on is your tile efficiency. Do really put in the effort to read the 5-parts basic guide on tile efficiency at http://osamuko.com/tile-efficiency-101-part-1/ After that, you should be furiously practicing and trying to apply.
For your defense skill when encountering a riichi, it is quite obvious that you do not have a guideline to know which is a safer tile to be discarded first. You can read them all at http://osamuko.com/umaikeiki-defense-gu ... -and-suji/ and http://osamuko.com/basic-defense-techniques-in-mahjong/ . If you understand these articles, you will able to deduce how Iapetus arrive to his order of discards.
For now, just read the articles, practice and work on your tile efficiency. You can focus on defense only when it is against Riichi (for now) and make firm decision whether you are pushing or defending. Don't bother trying half-half for now because it is a very advanced skill to be learnt which requires strong foundation.
You might only want to post your next game after incorporating all the basic skills you learn from the articles.
Will be looking forward to how much you have improved by then.
I've seen your whole game and I believe most of the points are highlighted by Iapetus.
The issue here is not quite each individual hand per se but more of your foundations, basic concepts etc.
Your most important thing to focus on is your tile efficiency. Do really put in the effort to read the 5-parts basic guide on tile efficiency at http://osamuko.com/tile-efficiency-101-part-1/ After that, you should be furiously practicing and trying to apply.
For your defense skill when encountering a riichi, it is quite obvious that you do not have a guideline to know which is a safer tile to be discarded first. You can read them all at http://osamuko.com/umaikeiki-defense-gu ... -and-suji/ and http://osamuko.com/basic-defense-techniques-in-mahjong/ . If you understand these articles, you will able to deduce how Iapetus arrive to his order of discards.
For now, just read the articles, practice and work on your tile efficiency. You can focus on defense only when it is against Riichi (for now) and make firm decision whether you are pushing or defending. Don't bother trying half-half for now because it is a very advanced skill to be learnt which requires strong foundation.
You might only want to post your next game after incorporating all the basic skills you learn from the articles.
Will be looking forward to how much you have improved by then.
-
Ignatius
- Silver Boarder
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:54 pm
- Location: (From Spain) In Ireland (EU) since 2016, so lazy I didn´t update this until 2019... (私は初心者だし、よろしく)
Re: Tenhou gameplay
I'm really grateful. Thank you mrfeng. I'll read those articles and try to improve with them.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for your time.
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.