How about some Sanbaiman hands?

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by or2az » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:52 pm

So you are saying that I do not get 3 dora for each of the 4-crak dora indicators. I guess I interpreted Barts guide incorrectly.
"If the same tile appears twice or more among the indicators then the effects are cumulative, e.g.
when there are two 7-man indicators and you win with a hand containing a set of three 8-man
tiles then you receive six Han. Dora bonuses also stack with doubles from red fives."
(It's the last sentence that I'm referring to. Don't often get in this exact situation, probably never have, and might never again.)
P.S. you mean man, not han, right?

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Ignatius » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:23 pm

or2az wrote:So you are saying that I do not get 3 dora for each of the 4-crak dora indicators. I guess I interpreted Barts guide incorrectly.
"If the same tile appears twice or more among the indicators then the effects are cumulative, e.g.
when there are two 7-man indicators and you win with a hand containing a set of three 8-man
tiles then you receive six Han. Dora bonuses also stack with doubles from red fives."
(It's the last sentence that I'm referring to.)
P.S. you mean man, not han, right?
I bet you´ve got the correct amount, 9 Han.

The first dorahyôji (indicator) is 9-bam so you get nothing here.

The second is 4-crak so you get those first 2 Han.

The third is the uradora indicator, which is another 4-crak . Thus, making your 5-crak to count as 4 Han. You have two of them, and you have to count each of them for being the kandora & uradora after all.

The last is the kanuradora 4-bam, and you get 3 Han from your three 5-bam .

And then as an extra, you get 2 Han for your two red fives. The red fives are an extra. Those Han get added later.

The total is 9 Han from dora.

To clarify:

One of your 5-crak get count as 3 Han: 1 Han for being the kandora & another 1 Han for being the uradora. And then you add the fact that tile is a red five for a total of 3 Han on that part.
Then you can count the other 5-crak , but this one, only for being kandora & uradora.

This way, the manzu tiles gives you 5 Han from dora.

You have to count each thing separately.

When Barticle said: "If the same tile appears twice or more among the indicators then the effects are cumulative, e.g.
when there are two 7-man indicators and you win with a hand containing a set of three 8-man
tiles then you receive six Han. Dora bonuses also stack with doubles from red fives." Means that you count each 8-man twice, but just because the values stack. That´s all.

The problem is that maybe Barticle´s text does not explain a case like you´ve got, with the red fives, properly. Could be ambiguous.

So some people may think when you have the same dora and kandora indicator you have to double the value of the tile, but it´s not exactly that. If you say something like that, someone may think that if you have a red five dora, you have to rely on the fact that this tile is a red five, and then double it´s value.

Example of a wrong calculation due an unclear or incorrect explanation: You have a 5 manzu wich is a dora, but also is a red five, so it has to give you 2 Han. As is said that when there are two 4-manzu indicators and you win with a 5 manzu dora in your hand it´s value get´s doubled, you may think that it´s value is 4 Han. Because it´s the dora and also a red five, wich atomatically awards you with 2 Han, 4 if doubled this way.

But you have to count each thing separately. Not multiplying, but adding.

I edited this so many times... I will not edit it more, I promise.
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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Referee » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:01 am

Yeah, I meant 5-man, of course. My bad.

Ignatius is explaining it more thoroughly. :)

The dora can stack with themselves in case of multiple indicators, but nothing makes a five "double red", so to speak. :) Note that you would be adding those red fives even if they weren't regular dora.

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Barticle » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:38 pm

I've made a note to make this a little clearer when I finally get around to an update...

Thanks team!

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Ignatius » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:52 pm

Barticle wrote:I've made a note to make this a little clearer when I finally get around to an update...

Thanks team!
I'm waiting for it!
I have my own paper written in spanish. A boring 136 pages, thing. The problem is, it's really boring...
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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Referee » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:00 pm

Have Kana-chan narrate an audiobook version, and the boredom disappears. :)

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Ignatius » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:18 pm

Referee wrote:Have Kana-chan narrate an audiobook version, and the boredom disappears. :)
That would be brutal. :)
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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Barticle » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:26 pm

I have lots of little updates and additions planned, but no major changes. I can't say when it will be but it certainly won't happen until I've tested the new Wareme option in my next game...

Writing long guides in plain text without page breaks (my biggest runs to 148 pages) has taught me the importance of formatting. To avoid the "wall of text" effect I use short paragraphs, indents and headings. Wherever possible I use bullet lists and tables to present data and break up the text. Without the constraint of plain text you're free to throw in photos, diagrams and text boxes too.

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by or2az » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:11 pm

Hey Bart, That wareme rule is a killer. I don't mind it when I'm the beneficiary but when it goes against me, I could just scream!
(which is why I don't use it except once in a blue moon, like right now)
Tried it in an East only match and wiped the guy out in the 1st hand. I'm glad it wasn't the other way around.
It was a 6 han dealer haneman (chinitsu dora 1) and he went from 20k to -16k, a loss of 36,000 pts, just like that.
This ruleset also disallowed the bankruptcy rule, so the match continued with the negative score (dont like that, either).
I held on for the win. (pot luck on where that wareme marker ends up, never got it again for the rest of the match.)
Time to go back to the normal rules.
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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Ignatius » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:21 pm

I will redo my text to give it a decent look. As I have my own table and all, I could use photos, maybe that could help to shorten explanations.
To redo the text will take a lot of time. But I bet it will deserve the effort.

I think wareme rule is a game-breaker. Too much to win and too much to loose. It could be so much that makes it kinda unfair or annoying sometimes. I don´t like it.
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Barticle » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:44 pm

Yes, Wareme can have a massive effect for something luck-based. Suddenly even a five-Han hand can be 24k. It's a rule for gamblers basically.

Then there's the Dai Wareme option... with "big Wareme" the effect is x4 instead of x2 when both dice show the same number. :shock:

There's another Wareme variant in the new Simple Series game so I'm interested to see how that plays.

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by or2az » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:49 pm

Not sure if I made all the right choices here, but with a lot of luck, it worked out nicely.

It was the middle of the hand when I drew the 4p and the hand looked like this:
2-crak 3-crak 6-dot 7-dot 2-dot 4-dot 4-dot 4-dot 4-dot 2-bam 2-bam 5-bam 5-bam 5-bam-red
At first, I hesitated whether to kan the 4-dot and toss the 2 or to hold on to them and hope for a 3-dot .
But then what would I discard? The cracks? I did have 6 elements here so one would eventually have to go and drawing a 1m would hurt tanyao......but there was still the possibility of san ankou.
I decided to kan and toss the 2. The dead wall tile was a 2-bam and the dora flip was a 3-dot (wow, 4 extra dora!)
I soon drew a 1-crak (good-bye tanyao) and was ready to riichi. The hand now looked like this:
1-crak 2-crak 3-crak 6-dot 7-dot 2-bam 2-bam 2-bam 5-bam 5-bam 5-bam-red ...... :back 4-dot 4-dot :back
San Ankou was there but I would have to give up my ryanmen wait for a tanki. Oh well, that's not so bad.

I tossed the 6p (I guess either was okay) and soon drew the 7p for a tsumo win. The ura dora was a 4-bam (wow, 3 more extra dora!). Sanbaiman!
Only my 3rd one.(as Saki would say, "mahjong sure is fun")
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Last edited by or2az on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:07 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Ignatius » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:57 pm

or2az wrote:Not sure if I made all the right choices here, but with a lot of luck, it worked out nicely.

It was the middle of the hand when I drew the 4p and the hand looked like this:
2-crak 3-crak 6-dot 7-dot 2-dot 4-dot 4-dot 4-dot 4-dot 2-bam 2-bam 5-bam 5-bam 5-bam(red)
At first, I hesitated whether to kan the 4-dot and toss the 2 or to hold on to them and hope for a 3-dot .
But then what would I discard? The cracks? I did have 6 elements here so one would eventually have to go and drawing a 1m would hurt tanyao......but there was still the possibility of san ankou.
I decided to kan and toss the 2. The dead wall tile was a 1-crak (good-bye tanyao) and the dora flip was a 3-dot (wow, 4 extra dora!)
I soon drew another 2s and was ready to riichi. The hand now looked like this:
1-crak 2-crak 3-crak 6-dot 7-dot 2-bam 2-bam 2-bam 5-bam 5-bam 5-bam(red)...... white-dra 4-dot 4-dot white-dra
San Ankou was there but I would have to give up my ryanmen wait for a tanki. Oh well, that's not so bad.

I tossed the 6p (I guess either was okay) and soon drew the 7p for a tsumo win. The ura dora was a 4-bam (wow, 3 more extra dora!). Sanbaiman!
Only my 3rd one.(as Saki would say, "mahjong sure is fun")
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Sooo... Where´s the "Like" button? :)
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by Iapetus » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:32 pm

[quote="or2az"][/quote]??????

You were tenpai with a good wait and 4 dora after the rinshan draw. Should have been instant riichi. Sanankou shouldn't even have been considered.

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Re: How about some Sanbaiman hands?

Post by or2az » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:52 pm

I see what you're saying but I don't seem to remember it happening that way. I would remember passing up a chance to riichi with that hand..........unless........the 2s was the rinshan and I later drew the 1m......and I mistakenly reversed them when writing up the post. (duh!)
I think that would explain it. Good catch! Thanks. I will go back and fix it.

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