WWYD 2012/11/03

[Shirluban]

I'll discard the and stay silent, just for the chance to get suu an kou.
We may even be first with a tsumo or direct hit on the .

[Kyuu]

At the very least - tenpai with Iipeiko. But of course, no guts - no glory. Go for that Suu Ankou. So, this also means: no Riichi. After 6-7 draws and no improvement, might as well call it.

[Iapetus]

Riichi discarding 3pin. Suuankou would be cute, but the chances of getting that are a lot lower than simply tsumoing to win the game. With riichi, the ron results get a lot better as well.

[Scott Miller]

Hi Everyone!

Here's my take on this...

The hand is tenpai for Iipeiko (with only one tile satisfying that wait)... which with tsumo alone collects 3200 points total, but calling riichi on this hand runs the risk of being forced to claim a ron for only 1600 points total.

The hand is just one more tile away (with three different tiles satisfying that wait) from tenpai for suuankou (which itself would have two tiles satisfying the tenpai wait)... which earns 32000 points total.

The waits favor the 32000 point win over the 3200 point one, and with that kind of point-advantage shoring up the risk; I'd have to agree with Shirluban and Kyuu and go for it.

Now... the real question is.... could I have thought all that out on the fly? I dunno

[Referee]

It's worth 32000... by tsumo. By ron it's just 8000.

[Scott Miller]

When a non-dealer wins by ron, the discarding player will pay four times the basic points to the hand winner, which is 8,000 x 4 = 32,000 points.

[Referee]

No, in this case he would pay 2000 x 4 = 8000 (mangan). That's what I meant.

[Scott Miller]

Ah, I see what you're thinking.

Yes, normally a hand's basic value is limited to a maximum score, called mangan, of 2,000 points.

The only was to exceed this limit is to either score at least 5 fan, or be a yakuman hand, in which case the hand's basic value is looked up from a scoring table.

Suuankou (four concealed pons, Hidden Treasures) is a yakuman hand, which is not limited to mangan (2,000). Yakumen hands are worth four times mangan, or 8,000 points. So the discarder would need to pay four times this value to a non-dealer winner.

I hope that helps.

[Shirluban]

It's worth 32000... by tsumo. By ron it's just 8000.

In other terms:
To score suuankou you need to have four concealed koutsu. When you ron, the last set is melded, NOT concealed.

So if you have a hand like and ron a , you have only three concealed koutsu and score toitoi+sanankou+yakupai = 5 han = mangan = 8000 points (for non-dealer).

If the hand ends by tsumo, the last set would be concealed and the hand would qualify for suuankou.

[Scott Miller]

Of course! By ron isn't Suuankou... I over looked that. Doh!

[Ignatius]

A Suuankou can only be ronned waiting for the pair, the Suuankou Tanki-machi. Do not forget it.