Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

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yessirsir
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Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by yessirsir » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:01 pm

Hey Riichi mahjong fans !

I am wondering if the following hand (show in the screenshot) :

http://imgur.com/NNQniuY

should also give me "Ryanpeikou / Twice Pure Double Chow" yaku or not ?

or if not, could someone please explain why ?

I was thinking that Ryanpeikou requires the "two times, two identical chi" to be in different families (ex: 1-2-3 + 1-2-3 of character AND 1-2-3 + 1-2-3 of bamboo) but im not sure

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by Shirluban » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:48 pm

Hello and welcome!

Ryanpeikō is simply twice iipeikō (on a concealed hand).
I've never heard of a family restriction for it.

So, yes, your hand should give ryanpeikō.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by Senechal » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:22 pm

It's probably not impossible that in the mahjongverse that there is a variant somewhere, out there, that requires that. Riichi mahjong does not.

Because of that, I highly recommend not using wikis that mix and match mahjong variants. The only wikis to my knowledge that do not mix variants and are sufficiently curated by experts are at arcturus.su/wiki (English) and chuuren.fr/wiki (French).

http://arcturus.su/wiki/Ryanpeikou illustrates no hands as forcing numeric equality between both batches of sequences, only among each batch.

223344m667788p99s is just as valid as 223344m223344p99s.

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by yessirsir » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:39 pm

Thanks for the http://arcturus.su/ reference. Their page about Ryanpeikou actually answer my question !

:)

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by yessirsir » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:31 pm

Ok then what about this ? ...

... that situation is confusing me a bit.
Please look at the hands I made in this screenshot: http://imgur.com/7lh2q3B

It seems they are 2 different / specific hands but they are using the same tiles.

I read that Ryanpeikou vs Chiitoitsu are not compatible.

So what would be the conditions that would determine which "score" should be attributed?
I thought maybe it is because of how they are arranged at the end of the round,

(12312345645677 vs 11223344556677)

but some (most?) computer games are "auto-arranging" the player's hand during a match. So there must be something I am missing in order to determine why, or if, I have Ryanpeikou or Chiitoitsu ...

Anyone able to help me understand this one ?

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by Barticle » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:59 pm

Welcome to the forum.

If you're prepared to brave the world of auto-translators' efforts on the Japanese language and mahjong terminology, Japanese Wikipedia gives examples of Ryanpēkō in a hand with four identical sequences (same numbers and suits) and in a 22334455667788 flush hand (which would otherwise be scored as the Dai Sharin Yakuman if that rule option was allowed).

Additionally (while some of the comics obviously feature exotic optional rules and shouldn't be used as your main source of reference!) chapter 17 of the excellent Koizumi manga (Mudazumo Naki Kaikaku) also has a case of Ryanpēkō claimed on a flush hand with four identical sequences.

If there is more than one way of scoring your hand you can choose the one that gives the higher score. Commonly video games arrange tiles by suit then number order but they can recognize 112233 either as two identical sequences (as part of a Pinfu hand) or three pairs (as part of a seven pairs hand). I assume you're using a scoring app (or potentially a game with the option to edit and arrange your hand) and in the second case you entered the tiles specifically as pairs which forced the software to use that interpretation (with the lower overall value despite the addition of Riichi).

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by yessirsir » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:43 pm

I had not thought of looking at the Japanese wiki. Good idea! It will be of great help and my Japanese skills are not too bad. So thanks for the link :) (and the reply)

The fact that games will chose the best possible outcome (out of the 2 situations) also crossed my mind. It seemed to me that this is the most logical way.

As you guessed, I did use a hand calculator and it does force me to declare tiles as "pairs" and/or "chows", this is why I made 2 scenarios. So that I could see both outcomes.

I wish I could have found a game that allows me to edit my hands tho, but no luck so far.

For now, I am "cross-referencing" hands between multiple hand calculators apps, since it is too hard to use real games and just hope I will get the outcome that I want.

I am also using this great tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh0brmqq4sk

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by Mauro » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:48 pm

Under EMA rules, you simply use the most valuable hand:
All players at the table are responsible for ensuring that each winning hand is scored correctly and to the maximum points

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by Referee » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:45 pm

As has been said, you get the highest hand, in this case the Ryanpeikou. But if you've opened your hand... tough luck. No Ryanpeikou (or Iipeikou for that matter), no Tsumo, no Pinfu, no Riichi... In this case you still get Chinitsu for a mangan, though. 2000 in your app. (That is the base value, as you see, I guess, in the Settling Table.

Base 2000 / 4000-2000, 8000 ron / oya 4000 all, 12000 ron.

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by or2az » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:34 pm

I am curious as to where these final scores for these hands are coming from; 6000 for an 11 han and 4000 for a 10 han.
An 11 han (sanbaiman) is worth 24000 minimum while a 10 han (baiman) has a 16000 minimum value.
Here's a ryanpeiko/chinitsu similar to yours posted by Iapetus a while back on 1/15/14 . http://reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewto ... man#p56873
There's a nice scoring app you might want to check out. http://reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewto ... app#p58888

Edit: I see, base points of some kind. I thought base points had a 2000 pt maximum.

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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by Shirluban » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:47 pm

or2az wrote:Edit: I see, base points of some kind. I thought base points had a 2000 pt maximum.
Base points are limited to 2000 for hands worth less than 5 han.
For 5+ han hands, the base value is higher, thus the higher final value.
See http://ooyamaneko.net/mahjong/bookcmp/v ... 5&chap=6.1

(Of course, for those hands you can instead say they just worth their final value, and completely ditch the base points concept.)
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
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Re: Hand requirement (Ryanpeikou) question

Post by yessirsir » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:57 pm

Thanks for the extra info guys. I am in the process of making my own riichi mahjong game so, this helped a lot!

I also bought the app suggested by or2az which I like, lots of options :)

Edit:

Actually, the app I bought is another one. But also I have it.

(In case someone is wondering, this is the one I used in my screenshot: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... roid&hl=en)

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