oh boy!

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Gnom
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Re: oh boy!

Post by Gnom » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:30 am

The thing is that being dealer is something than can make your points a lot bigger. The renchan is mostly good for the dealer, and it usually comes as a reward for winning/being tenpai (sometimes the dealer will try to win with small hands or get tenpai with no yaku just for the renchan). So allowing a renchan when somebody else is tenpai feels kinda like giving a candy to your eldest when your second did good at school... Why not for the sake of simplicity but I'd try to change it to a) or b) as soon as possible (I think b) is the most widely used but a) might be easier for your group).

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Re: oh boy!

Post by or2az » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:12 am

So allowing a renchan when somebody else is tenpai feels kinda like giving a candy to your eldest when your second did good at school.
I see your point. Makes sense. Then why is there an option c) in the first place, and especially that other option, Nanba Nōten, where the dealer gets a continuance for a win or a tenpai draw during the East round and the conditions are relaxed to additionally allow a continuance on a dealer Nōten draw in the South round.

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Re: oh boy!

Post by Gnom » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:09 pm

I'd guess the option is there because it's a possibility, there are a lot of optional rules that are actually almost never used!

As for relaxing the rules in nana, one could argue that since tonba is not as decisive it's giving too much to the dealer when they don't have as much pressure to fold, and maybe also losing a bit of time, while in nanba (and especially the last half) you're either really trying to climb back or trying not to loose rank, so there is more opportunity for tactic play. The discussion about rules is as endless as the variations, really, but I feel that's the common take upon the matter.

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Re: oh boy!

Post by or2az » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:17 am

The conditions for renhan are either a) only when east wins, b) when east wins or has a tenpai hand in a draw or c) when east wins or in any draw.
In video games, I use b) but in live games, I use c), for simplicity, to keep it consistent with the honba--or2az
Why not for the sake of simplicity, but I'd try to change it to a) or b) as soon as possible. I think b is the most widely used--Gnom
As per Gnoms' suggestion, instituted Renchan=Dealer Win/Tenpai draw (not just any draw) in my live games.
Also tried using poker chips for scoring instead of the sticks, seems to make the transfer of points a bit easier, especially after I put little circular stickers on all of them indicating their value.
Am using those little chinese containers I found at a garage sale two years ago to hold them.
http://reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewto ... =90#p57477
I only have 3 of them so I will do without. (The container, not the chips!)
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Re: oh boy!

Post by or2az » Sat May 27, 2017 4:20 am

Nice to be back in Oregon playing live mahjong games again. Interest is growing. People I have taught are teaching other people. There are now more players playing the Japanese game than the Chinese game. Feels so good. Picked up a mahjong mat to replace the green felt and one of the ladies made me a smaller seat wind indicator. Also found 4 different color cups to hold the chips or sticks. A very nice looking setup!......(including my new shirt)
And it all started right here on the forum. Many thanks.
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Re: oh boy!

Post by Ignatius » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:40 pm

I'm happy that you have many people interested in it. :)

Something to celebrate, that is. Hope the interest grows even more.
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Re: oh boy!

Post by or2az » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:06 am

Still going strong. Taught 4 more people Japanese Mahjong in Lake Havasu City, Arizona, this winter.
3 were new to the game, 1 was an American Mahjong conversion.
Now it's off to Phoenix for a while.

Just to refresh my memory, if I have a 5-dot 6-dot 7-dot in a winning hand after calling riichi and the dora indicator and ura dora indicator are both 4-dot , does the 5-dot count twice. I think yes.

Never mind. Just found it in Barts guide.
If the same tile appears twice among the various Dora indicators then the effects are cumulative and you get a Daburu Dora (Double Dora). For example when there are two 7-man indicators and you win with a hand containing a set of three 8-man tiles you would receive six Han.
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Re: oh boy!

Post by Referee » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:10 pm

You found the answer already, but yes. The dora indicator is saying: "Add one han for each 5-pin in your winning hand". And the ura-dora indicator is saying: "Now add another han for each 5-pin in your hand". If the 5-pin were red (I don't know if you're using those), then, that'd be dora 3 by itself. :)

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Re: oh boy!

Post by or2az » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:52 am

Checked out 3 nearby community centers in the Phoenix area where they play weekly mahjong. As expected, it was all the American version, but at the 3rd one, when I told them I play Japanese, the reply was, "oh, we always wanted to learn that".
My eyebrows did a MR SPOCK, and so,........here we go again.........;
converting 3 more players to Japanese. Oh Boy!
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Re: oh boy!

Post by Barticle » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:37 pm

Good work! Look at those lovely neat discards. :D

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Re: oh boy!

Post by or2az » Sat May 26, 2018 4:38 am

Well, six months have passed and I'm back on the Oregon coast and my original mahjong group.
It's been almost 3 years since I started converting these ladies to riichi.
No one is playing Chinese anymore. WOW!. We play twice a week with 2 tables running. They are all out to beat me. I have to be at my best.
All the basic rules are in effect and they don't want any help during the game, and now, they would also like to add the penalties.
My god, I've created monsters!! (not really)
From what i have read ( mainly Bart's guide.),
Here's what I know, maybe.
The chombo is a reverse mangan, 4000 to each player if the dealer commits the foul and 8000 (4k to East, 2k to the others) if a non-dealer does. The hand is null and void as if it never existed, and then replayed under the same original conditions.
In a dead hand, the culprit continues to play the hand, but can not pon or chi, nor call a win of any kind. They can not get any of the tenpai points in a draw and are considered to be no-ten no matter what.

Are these descriptions firm rules or are there other options?
I don't want to reach a point where every little mishap is penalized if it can be corrected easily but I realize some can't.
Under what circumstances should a dead hand or chombo be DEFINITELY enforced.

Addendum: I have found a thread from 2013 called ALTERNATIVE METHODS OF CALLING CHOMBO

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53165&p=56339&hilit=Chombo#p56339

I think this discussion will be enough.

Feel free to add anything.
Thanks, guys

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Re: oh boy!

Post by or2az » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:01 pm

Returned to the Phoenix area this month and was happy to see that the group I taught has carried on without me. In fact, Japanese Mahjong is now a regularly scheduled weekly activity at the community center.
They still play American but enjoy the strategy of Riichi more and are always trying to expand the group.
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I am still trying to get them to start keeping score, but at the moment, they prefer playing just to see who wins and to improve their play.
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Re: oh boy!

Post by Barticle » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:15 pm

That's great. Now you need to start going "2" some other states to spread the good word there! :)

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Re: oh boy!

Post by Ozball » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:40 am

That's awesome! Always great to see new groups popping up and Riichi Mahjong expanding in general. Apparently the group I joined in February was a tiny group that struggled to put together 2 tables each week till shortly before I joined when it blew up, and now we regularly have 4 tables, and people waiting, (since the place we play at can't really let us have more than that space wise).

When you say they don't score, and just play to see who wins, do they basically just play East 1 constantly? and randomise the winds each time?
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Re: oh boy!

Post by or2az » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:19 pm

No, they play a regular hanchan, with the seats rotating when the dealer wins or is tenpai.
Since they dont keep score (yet), I haven't introduced the honba and I have them calling Kong's whenever they can (except if that 4th tile can be used in a chow) so that they see the dead wall is used for more than Dora indicators.
They also like to physically move tiles from live wall to dead wall after the kong to maintain the 14.
I do explain how keeping score would alter their strategy as opposed to just going for the win (ie, calling riichi, calling a kong, opening a hand, etc)
It will happen in time, as my other groups are already keeping score.

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