League Play

[Torgo]

Here in the heartland of these United States, mahjong isn\'t a big game. Or rather, when it is, it\'s American style.

I\'d like to play more often and more competitively, and I thought that one way to do that might be to create a league, but all I have to go on around here is softball, billiards and darts.

How does league play work elsewhere? How is it excellent, and what could it do better?

Many thanks,
Chris

[Barticle]

Hi Chris and welcome to the site! B)

I guess it\'s normal in sports leagues for fixtures to be arranged so that each player/team competes against each and all of the others the same number of times per season.

However if you have a good number of players, perhaps with varying abilities, you might like to consider the model used in the league mode in the video-game Mahjong Taikai IV. The number of competitors is a multiple of four (16 in this case) and the players for each match are picked according to their current league position so that 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th always play together in one match; 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th in another, etc. In practice it\'s like having a series of mini-leagues.

This way players of similar skill levels always play together although learners won\'t have the benefit of more experienced ones to advise and you might get sick of seeing the same old faces each week! :silly:

The game also uses the match points system described by Shirluban (and Tom) in the following thread so that the four scores from each match - and therefore the running total for the whole league at any stage - will always sum to zero.

http://www.reachmahjong.com/home/index. ... 5&id=51047

It would be simpler if you were playing American without the oka (winner\'s bonus, 20k in that example) and uma (points distribution of e.g. +20/+10/-10/-20). At the end of each match you could just subtract the starting score (do you start with 1000 pts in American?) so the four scores add up to zero.

At any one time roughly half the league will have negative scores though which could be disheartening!

PS Prizes/trophies at season\'s end are essential. :)

[Torgo]

Thank you for the welcome and your thoughts!

Going from my experience with a billiards league, I was thinking of a more strategic way of seating players.

Imagine a league of 4 teams. Each team can have as many on their roster as they like. Each player is rated from their experience in the league.

Each session, the order of teams is assigned by the leagues. Say this week, the order is 3-1-2-4. At the first table, team 3 would have to seat a player. Then each of the teams in turn (1 then 2 then 4 in this example) would seat someone from their roster at that table, keeping in mind various factors:
- The rating of the seated players
- The ratings of the own roster
- The ratings of players yet to be seated
- The number of tables to fill
- Who could make it this week

I haven\'t yet thought of a way to handicap the games to help even out the competitions, and at this point, I\'m not sure it\'s necessary.

What do you all think about these ideas? Can you think of more ways to introduce strategy into the contest?

(And although this may be heresy for this site, I\'m thinking of using MCR rules as a starting point.)

[Senechal]

Someone on RGM (probably you) mentioned both MCR and Zung Jung as potential American games.

AFAIK, there is no infrastructure for either variant, neither is innately supported by a community (the only three that are are HK, Riichi, and American; the first two not being really open (Riichi is opening up but not in places you\'d call the heartland))

And no one will take it well if you start an organization with the intent of breaking people off from what they were playing before unless it\'s explicitly stated. Any less than honest maneuvers here will spell failure.

Most successful clubs in any case don\'t have more than 30 members anyways, and an organization (with the intent of being larger than a club) without clubs doesn\'t exist. And since I can tell you from experience, wanting to start a club on a whim is bound to fail unless you actually have a network of real (not spacebook) people able and willing to participate. To take New York for example, if you have 3 people interested in the Bronx, and 3 in Long Island, and all 6 of them are on their horses and say \"I\'m not going outside of my zone.\", the movement is stillborn, effectively dead when you need 4 players just for a game, and I\'d say at least 7 to ensure one regular table of play.

Until you see those numbers, you won\'t see a club, and at least 10x that before you can talk about a higher-level organization.

[Tom Sloper]

At the end of each match you could just subtract the starting score (do you start with 1000 pts in American?)

Don\'t even bother trying to understand American mah jongg.
But to answer the question anyway:

In a tournament, you start with 0 points.

In a home game, if you use a "pie," you start with $5 in coins (or $2 in coins if you\'re all cheapskates, or $10 in coins if you\'re all flamboyantly rich).

In a tournament you either add points or subtract points. There\'s no going back and using the "starting score" for anything because the concept of "starting score" is not used.

In a home game, if you use a "pie," you get more coins or lose coins. You can finish the play session with more coins or less coins but you never lose more coins than were in your "pie." If you "go pie" and have no more coins, you can continue playing for free until you win some coins... or don\'t.

It helps if you realize that American mah jongg was designed by women, to suit female players, in the late 1930\'s, and has survived as a womens\' game ever since.

[Torgo]

Thank you for the sobering perspective. It\'s most helpful.

[Tom Sloper]

1. the only three that are are HK, Riichi, and American;
2. the first two not being really open (Riichi is opening up but not in places you\'d call the heartland

1. Taiwanese and Wright-Patterson are also fairly widely played here, but I agree that Taiwanese would be less widely played than HKOS and Riichi/Dora majan. I can\'t get a handle on W-P numbers.
2. "Open" means "widely played," if I understand correctly?

[Barticle]

Don\'t even bother trying to understand American mah jongg.

I\'ve read about the history and rules of American MJ in several books (although I\'m saving the best for last - I just ordered yours last week!) and I can safely say it\'s just an academic interest and I\'m happy sticking with modern Japanese.

At least there is a small amount of common ground, with the "one double" rule in American (where used) and the one-han (yaku) minimum in Japanese.

Also American uses pie and Japanese also uses pai (tiles). :silly:

I hadn\'t heard about pie before though so thanks for explaining. American Pie! :lol:

Thank you for the sobering perspective. It\'s most helpful.

Of course you can still run a league even if you have only four players available, or even three if you play 3-player.

You can simply keep a running total of match scores, or apply weighting if you prefer, like 1st = 10 pts, 2nd = 6, 3rd = 3 and 4th = 1 or similar.

[Tom Sloper]

1. I just ordered yours last week!)
2. I can safely say it\'s just an academic interest and I\'m happy sticking with modern Japanese.

1. Cool!
2. I totally understand. Although I am part of a regular American game (weekly), Japanese is my favorite. And I no longer hesitate to tell folks that when they ask.

[Barticle]

The Red Dragon & The West Wind arrived safely, if a little late, yesterday. (Amazon UK still penalize you for choosing free shipping - get with the times, people!)

It\'s a very comprehensive and well illustrated guide to the American and Chinese (new CO) rule-sets. The sections I\'ve dipped into so far are well structured and written clearly. So, recommended.

Do you have any plans for a second, Mr S?

[...] Japanese is my favorite. And I no longer hesitate to tell folks that when they ask.

Excellent. Say it loud and proud! :)

[Torgo]

So how are teams run on mahjong leagues? What would you change? Anyone?

[Tom Sloper]

Do you have any plans for a second, Mr S?

Thanks for the kind words, Mr B. No immediate plans for another mahjong book.

[Torgo]

I arranged a mahjong night last Friday evening, inviting a bunch of the people my wife and I have taught to play over the past year or so. A couple beginners were there too.

In all, we had 14 people playing three tables for 3.5 hours, when some people had to leave. We then went down to two tables and played another 1.5 hours.

Everyone had a great time, but none of them wanted to get into scoring just yet. Next time...